Curse

The Real Roy Keane · May 15, 2006, 02:43 AM // 02:43

Unless you've been hiding under a rock for the last month, or don't play in HA, you'll know that dual smite is once again the flavour of the month.
Now, when Ether Renewal smite was the in thing, I was, as they say, a complete PvP noob, so I can't really say how in compares the the Air of Enchantment incarnation. I do know, however, that the latest model is a force to be reckoned with, packing high defensive and offensive power, and due to it's increasing popularity, my guilds build has been forced to change- Well of the Profane is now a must. Indeed, if we don't mange to employ the aforementioned skill, the fight usually goes against us.
What I'd like to know is how other HA'ers feel about it-how do you generally fare against it, what counters do you employ that don't gimp your build, and, finally, do you think it desrves a belt of the nerf stick?

Sapper2289 · May 15, 2006, 03:08 AM // 03:08

As with every build it has its strengths and weaknesses... I think it probably will get nerfed (every skill i like seems to). Fighting in an open area and spreading out/kiting with decent monks is usually enough to beat a smite team. The only skill i think is too overpowered is order of apostacy...

D Fault · May 15, 2006, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Diversion works great versus the smiters. They spam constantly so youre bound to get something.
Draining their zealots fire works well too.

Lord Dark Genie · May 15, 2006, 12:25 PM // 12:25

Diversion is indeed great, most "mid-level" players will cast right through it

Signet of Humility combined with some energy-denial should also be able to shut them down.
1 or more copies of ward against foes will ruin their day if you use them to kite the warriors and don't camp them

allience · May 15, 2006, 02:24 PM // 14:24

blackout or power block works well too

rii · May 15, 2006, 02:59 PM // 14:59

I dont feel that aoe smite needs to be nerfed. The old smite was pretty crazy, this incantation is reasonable. Using this build:

AoE smiter

Monk/Elementalist
Level: 20

Divine Favor: 9 (8+1)
Smiting Prayers: 16 (12+4)
Protection Prayers: 11 (10+1)

Reversal of Fortune (Protection Prayers)
For 8 seconds, the next time target ally would take damage, that ally gains that amount of Health instead, maximum 63.
Energy:5 Cast:0.25 Recharge:2

Guardian (Protection Prayers)
For 5 seconds, target ally has a 42% chance to "block" attacks.
Energy:5 Cast:1 Recharge:2

Air of Enchantment [Elite] (Protection Prayers)
For 8 seconds, Enchantments cast on target other ally cost 5 less Energy. This is an elite skill.
Energy:5 Cast:0.25 Recharge:5

Balthazar's Aura (Smiting Prayers)
For 10 seconds, foes adjacent to target ally take 26 holy damage each second.
Energy:25 Cast:2 Recharge:25

Zealot's Fire (Smiting Prayers)
For 60 seconds, whenever you use a skill that targets an ally, all foes adjacent to that target are struck for 37 fire damage.
Energy:10 Cast:1 Recharge:30

Judge's Insight (Smiting Prayers)
For 21 seconds, target ally's attacks deal holy damage and have +20% armor penetration.
Energy:10 Cast:2 Recharge:10

Smite Hex (Smiting Prayers)
Remove a Hex from target ally. If a Hex is removed, foes in the area suffer 90 damage.
Energy:5 Cast:1 Recharge:15

Glyph of Lesser Energy (Elementalist other)
Your next Spell costs 15 less Energy to cast.
Energy:5 Cast:1 Recharge:30

(just so we are talking about the same thing)
I have been told it works out at 36dps, then whatever multiplied by the area of effect. This is just comparable to warrior dps, I believe its slightly lower... but if you take into effect strafing, etc, its probably about the same.
That means its pretty dam good. While a lot of teams might pick it up since it does a decent level of damage, it does have flaws. While the damage is good, there is no disruption of the enemy, and while the protection on the target is nice, you may well be spending a fair while smiting through a warrior, which isnt going to get a whole lot out of it. It is, as stated above, pretty poor against disruption itself, with a well timed diversion quickly picking it off.

It has its place on certain teams, as it should be. It can work defensively or offensively, which makes it good utility, but unless something develops it doesnt look at all nerf-worthy.

sir lockt · May 15, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

The new smite is much weaker then the renewal smite, that was able in massive self-healing. But of course its a force to reckon with.

But pls dont forget: THE counterbuild of smite of the old days was... yeah you guessed it: IWAY. with the rise of IWAY smite was already diminishing, when the update hit, it was over...

In the meanwhile IWAY is rebalanced as well, so I am anxious to see how this develops. Anyway: every new build is adding to the flavor of the tombs (sorry still call it like that...)

Ruben · May 15, 2006, 04:54 PM // 16:54

Excuse me but could somebody please tell me what the old dual smite was?

JR · May 15, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruben

Excuse me but could somebody please tell me what the old dual smite was?

E/Mo smiters with Ether Renewal, pre-nerf. It was sick energy and health regen, which allowed you to spam enchantments to trigger Zealots all day long, whilst being very hard to kill.

Rey Lentless · May 15, 2006, 05:26 PM // 17:26

Draw conditions, balth aura, zealot's.. were all nerfed since then too.

Diversion and enchant removal on the smiters.

The old smite was harder to deal with because of ether renewal. Inherently the smiter would stack up a lot of enchants, so you couldn't just use a drain and expect to accomplish much, it required a rend. The smites were more damage, and draw was spammed more quickly, and if you didn't remove ether.. then the smiter could just continue to spam and tank through most damage.

This new smite isn't as formidable and don't expect to see it nerfed.

Outkast · May 15, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Look out for IWAY teams running dual orders. Order of Apostasy will remove those enchants very quickly and not just the smiting ones.

sh4ft3d · May 15, 2006, 06:23 PM // 18:23

The Mantra of Recovery/diversion spammers are also becoming quite popular... I well trained mesmer geared towards normal monks could also shut down dual smite by diversioning their main skills.

Divineshadows · May 15, 2006, 07:46 PM // 19:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sapper2289

As with every build it has its strengths and weaknesses... I think it probably will get nerfed (every skill i like seems to). Fighting in an open area and spreading out/kiting with decent monks is usually enough to beat a smite team. The only skill i think is too overpowered is order of apostacy...

QFT.

Spreading out and kiting are the best counters to smite teams. Drain enchant on zealot's fire as soon as the smiter casts it helps too and is pretty much necessary on a relic run if your team wants to be able to body block. Ward against foes helps enormously if used right. Well of profone is not necessary to beat dual smite on any 1v1 map, but it can help a lot to get a smite team off of the alter in HoH. When the holding team in HoH is a dual smite, I recommend starting the fight as early as possible because these teams can play very defensively. My guild has yet to lose to smite on a 1v1 map except one occasion where we had 3 pick-ups that did not know how to kite.

Order of Apostacy is not overpowered. When playing against IWAY teams that use it, everyone on your team must be strong at kiting. If the necromancer casting it is not out of range, then interrupting this skill helps a lot too.

glenn_rolfe · May 16, 2006, 01:59 AM // 01:59

smite is successful because the current crop of mesmers scouring tombs do not know how to apply pressure to multiple casters, let alone how to make a smart bar suitable to do so. And not to mention the lack of ability of most ppl to think about what to bring in a build based on what you're likely to fight against in tombs. These mesmers will either sit on a healer (and thus get overpowered by smite damage), or sit on a smiter and get caught in a 30 min fight.

Ppl brought up on cookie-cutting surge/burn and migraine interrupt builds are going to get caught short against smite teams, and thus you will witness smite teams flogging out fame like iway over the next months.

Smite is much weaker now than the previous ether renewal form, but diversion also copped it's whack when the zealot's/ether renewal nerf hit. Wasn't it a 1 sec cast back then? Seems so long ago.

Smiting is for nubs, just as euroway (2 surge mes builds), iway, r spike, blood spike, has always been. Yet those builds will always be attractive in tombs because you can slap them together quick. "Dude air enchant monk - gogo. You taint necro, bring windborne - go go. Meet last district 3mins go go"

Rey Lentless · May 16, 2006, 02:15 AM // 02:15

One mes groups were much more common back in the day too. They're pretty much a noobified class in tombs now with mes's only set up for shut down on one monk. When the old smite was still rampant, you still had many groups running single mes's that could cause problems for multiple people at a time.

Diversion was a 1 sec, 5 recharge skill though, and e-drain was much better.

glenn_rolfe · May 16, 2006, 03:09 AM // 03:09

One mes builds are as powerful as they have ever been, and in fact have become even stronger with some additions from new skill lines.

It's just that ppl haven't looked hard enough.

Rey Lentless · May 16, 2006, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Other than air of enchantment, some ranger skills, and to a real small extent.. ritualist spammers.. I haven't seen faction skills integrated into HA much. Just the nature of the fotm and PU groups running the same builds over and over.

You can't ask for a solo mes in an HA PU group. The chances of getting one that warrants having a mes in your group is small IMO. Unlike a migraine or energy denial mes that sits on one monk and who's role is real simple and easy to do, a solo mes's job is going to vary every match and it's a skilled thing. Since most people are doing HA because they don't have a guild group at that time, you're inherently dealing with people you're less familiar with. I can see why very few teams run them.

I'm not sure I agree that they're stronger now. Diversion was truly ridiculous before.

glenn_rolfe · May 16, 2006, 05:44 AM // 05:44

yeah, I mean solo mes abilities are greater now than pre-factions. The amount of multiple anti-cast spread you can spread from 1 mes now is pretty good. Actually it was pretty good before if you had the right combo *wink wink*

Yeah "back in the day", diversion could be dropped on someone 24/7, with still a fair bit of anti-cast spread on other targets. You could still do it pretty efficiently after the nerf, it's just that ppl don't look very deeply into timing combos. They'd rather just go surge-burn-sow- *rinse and repeat* That's not a mesmer to be a proud of.............

Mentality is - 3 monks, shut down with 2 mesmers is good math. And the term shutdown is the most misused term in guild wars.

But back on topic, given the popularity that smite is gaining, you have to pack counters as you would against iway, blood spike, r spike, etc. Diversion, profane, enchant strippers, humility, knockdown's, etc are going to be your friends. Poor old tormentor's armour is gonna take a whack.

The Real Roy Keane · May 16, 2006, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by glenn_rolfe

Smiting is for nubs, just as euroway (2 surge mes builds), iway, r spike, blood spike, has always been.

Every single one of those is a solid build, capable of winning HoH. Just because something's overused doesn't make it bad..

Mental Leteci · May 16, 2006, 09:26 PM // 21:26

It does. I don't see why is it so fun to play against a spike team? It's a game,not some waiting contest. If you're an infuser all you do is wait and see who's getting spiked. So interesting. Every build is capable of winning Halls,but as soon as that build holds for a long time it will become overused. It's how the things go. Not everyone in HA is original,there is 90% of people who don't know how to make a build of their own.